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join:2008-02-23
Da wet coast | Woot! Have a safe weekend; eat, drink, and remember why you're celebrating! | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
| Re: Woot!
I want YOU to have healthcare! |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
1 edit | Healthcare and socialism? said by MAR_03_2002  :I have & pay for healthcare. What it should say is "I want you to pay for others healthcare". That's happening now, even without President Obama's proposed reform.
America's healthcare "market" is not a "free market" of willing buyers and sellers. The AMA is essentially given a monopoly to set quality standards -- enforceable through public law (and, ultimately the business end of a gun).
The downside: a "market" without lower-quality (and -priced) options for those who can afford only that, and would be willing to purchase what they can afford..
We often hear "America has the best health care system in the world, that's why foreigners travel here for treatment." That's a breath-taking non sequitur. When public law is used to create a market which wouldn't naturally result from "willing buyers and sellers," you can make it whatever you want.
But, that comes at someone's expense. You never get something for nothing. Having the "best healthcare system in the world" is a direct result of eliminating lessor choices which would exist in a true "market," and the disparity (and unpredictable market outcomes) which would exist in such a true "market." It's "the best healthcare system" if you can afford this socialized and artificial market. For everyone else, they get virtually nothing.
That is a form of wealth transfer. Creating a socialized market where due diligence to purchase goods of services is reduced at the expense of others.
The really perverse thing about this is
1) We say these socially-mandated quality standards (on an otherwise "free market") are a matter of "public safety." We're denying people healthcare that they can afford so they'll be safe? Going without treatment is better than buying at least something?
Of course, what we really mean is "public safety" at the aggregate (social) level. Even if some are actually less safe. That is a social, collective goal. Subject to questions about who's safety is improved. But, as soon as anyone raises that topic they're labeled a "socialist" who supports "wealth transfer" (as if wealth transfer isn't happening now!).
2) We use foreigners seeking treatment in the US to justify Americans denied even the choice of lessor-quality (and lessor-priced) goods and services?
Trust me, someone's paying for your health care today. It's just not as clear (to you) as removing $ from your wallet.
Mark | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
1 edit | Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by amigo_boy :Trust me, someone's paying for your health care today. It's just not as clear (to you) as removing $ from your wallet. ...Yes -- we ARE ALREADY paying for poor folks healthcare -- and at the very highest possible costs -- with virtually no effort whatsoever for prevention -- under the absolute certainty that everyone -- especially poor people -- do get sick. Only "Ron Paul" and the Libertarians would "step-over" a dying street-person "for the public good". The rest of us swallow-hard and allow our taxes to subsidize various "hospital districts" around the country -- 'cause we know God loves everybody -- and allows us to help others as we would like to be helped -- if it was our child in need.
We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations).
Even Rush Limbaugh is paying for indigent healthcare! -- he's just too frick'n dumb to know he could save a bundle through a "medicare-like" option for needs-qualified patients -- to get preventative care (like cholesterol meds). "Stupid is as stupid does"
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Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
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|  Re: Healthcare and socialism?
said by ronpin :Only "Ron Paul" and the Libertarians would "step-over" a dying street-person "for the public good". The rest of us swallow-hard and allow our taxes to subsidize various "hospital districts" around the country -- 'cause we know God loves everybody -- and allows us to help others as we would like to be helped -- if it was our child in need. We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations). What a gross distortion of what Ron Paul and libertarians, in general, stand for; only the staunchest objectivist would do something as you describe. Ron Paul has specifically described that non-profit organizations and churches would help provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford it, which is the way it used to be until public funding crowded them out (after all, why donate when you're forced into paying for it anyway?). Milton Friedman talked about how back in the 20's and 30's the poor and upper class could get excellent healthcare, but it was the middle-class who struggled with it, a bit.
It's one thing to say "Ugh, those libertarians; they believe in deregulation, low taxes, and are somehow anti-war", but to make a statement like you just did is horrendously inaccurate. | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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2 edits | Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by Fox McCloud :Ron Paul has specifically described that non-profit organizations and churches would help provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford it, which is the way it used to be until public funding crowded them out If you want to play the "way it used to be" game, we could go back to when health care was lightly regulated. Your neighbor could set a fractured arm, or deliver a baby if you wanted to save money on a doctor visit.
The root cause isn't "public funding." It's that we didn't want third-world health care conditions. To achieve that goal we gave the medical association (which became the medical establishment) control over its industry, to establish standards and use Public Law to enforce those standards "in the public interest."
It was the loss of those "free market" choices (for the social good of a rising standard of living) which led to increased calls for "public funding."
This is no different than other social evolution, such as public water, sewer, roads, etc. Society is always looking to improve standards -- and recognizing that a social responsibility goes with those improved (artificial, not "market-based" standards).
That's where Ron Paul breaks down. IMO, Ron Paul pseudo-libertarians are a fraud. They like to use the big-L Libertarian rhetoric to sound like their positions are "principled" (unlike everyone else). But, they quickly dodge all the disconnects in big-L rhetoric by explaining "I'm not a big-L Libertarian...."
The result is a mish-mash of incomprehensible positions based upon sound bites. Selectively focusing on things like how we should "return to a time before public funding" -- while ignoring what public funding was a response to. (I.e., they don't want to return to a time before public standards because, "hey! I'm not a Big-L Libertarian!!!!").
Mark | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
1 edit | said by Fox McCloud :said by ronpin :Only "Ron Paul" and the Libertarians would "step-over" a dying street-person "for the public good". The rest of us swallow-hard and allow our taxes to subsidize various "hospital districts" around the country -- 'cause we know God loves everybody -- and allows us to help others as we would like to be helped -- if it was our child in need. We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations). ...Ron Paul has specifically described that non-profit organizations and churches would help provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford it, which is the way it used to be until public funding crowded them out (after all, why donate when you're forced into paying for it anyway?). ...you only proved my point!!! (...leave it up to God -- it's not my problem ("am I my brothers keeper?")
I was raised with no healthcare -- through no fault of my own -- living in an obvious "shack" right across the street from a large church! -- during the "good 'ol days" of racism, sexism and "manifest destiny" No -- libertarians are only worse than repugs because they attempt to rationalize their convenient, selfish inhumanity. At least Rush Limbaugh is too dumb to actually rationalize anything (demonize - yes)
If only selfish people were not inherently ignorant -- they'd be the very first to embrace expanding Medicare -- to save the money that now leaks-out between the cracks in our system. GM, Walmart and most other Fortune 500 companies now see what a competitive disadvantage we now suffer by foisting-off the healthcare of sentient beings to the randomness of the "business cycle". It's time to grow-up.
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by ronpin :...you only proved my point!!! (...leave it up to God -- it's not my problem ("am I my brothers keeper?") That gets back to my observation about Ron Paul pseudo-Libertarians. A Big-L Libertarian would say it's not government's job to coerce anyone to be someone else's keeper.
Ron Paul pseudo-Ls intimate suggest that principle, but won't go that far because, to be consistent we'd have to question why government sets social standards (and resulting market prices) high (so we don't have third-world medicine). They want to suggest Big L's "non-coercion principle," but at the same time distance themselves from what that really means because Big L's are largely irrelevant due to their unrealistic/unpopular principles.
That's what I don't like about he modern health-care debate. It's driven by ideologues who simply parrot polar positions rather than think about the issues for themselves. It's just slogans about "wealth transfer." Or, the other side not acknowleging that reform will truly create problems for many -- *but, that won't be a precedent since we create problems for many today*.
Mark | |
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join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Re: Healthcare and socialism? Well-written amigo. | |
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dumbamericans
@rr.com
| said by amigo_boy :said by ronpin :We are in fact a very decent society -- just not very smart! (like all the other industrialized nations). I don't know if I'd compare us to other industrialized nations. Less developed nations don't regulate health care quality like we do. You can see a doctor for $5-$10. Prescriptions are cheap.Developed nations have accepted the social responsibility that comes with setting social standards on health care (to create higher quality than a market of "willing buyers and sellers" would produce). They make goods and services available to those who can't afford the artificially-created high priced "market" which allows no lessor choices. That's what's funny (in a perverse way) about opponents to health care reform. They complain that you'll have to wait for services. People wait today! If you can't afford the artificially- (socially-) created market, you'll wait until your illness is bad enough to be seen by an emergency-room physician. I liked (in a perverse way) Rs speaking to the camera about how "if you like the DMV or Post Office, you'll love health care reform." That's an apples/oranges comparison. There is a sizeable portion of the public who can't buy any service. For them, there's not even a line to wait in. Rs don't talk about that. All they do is act like a precedent is being set if their own ox is gored. However, I agree with Rs that health care reform will create problems for many people. I'm not looking forward to waiting for services that I can afford today. But, the Rs strategy seems to be to ignore how many people have it far worse than simply waiting. Maybe when the problem is *everyone's* problem we'll look for better solutions. Personally, I'd like to see competing medical associations. The AMA providing top-shelf accreditation for those willing to pay top-shelf prices. A PMA (Public Medical Association) for those willing to accept lower quality goods and services at a discount. Giving the AMA a monopoly has been bad (unless you are among the few who can afford to pay for these monopolized goods and services). Mark i dont know what world you live in.
the US has the WORST overall health care system IN THE WORLD for its OWN PEOPLE.
try being elderly on ssi paying insurance premiums and prescriptions, or state funded ssi and state Medicaid with subsidized so called insurance.
be a "typical" AMERICAN with wow "insurance" and be the lucky one to be struck with a major illness lets try a major heart condition that amounts to $500,000 in medical expense, and now the hospital is demanding "UPFRONT" payment before they cover any procedure of what your "INSURANCE" WILL NOT COVER!!!! yea your now REFINANCING YOUR HOUSE TO THE TUNE OF $100k+. you think your covered because you have insurance? THINK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the ones who can "afford" insurance are paying into a for profit agency seeking for profit treatment/s on top of for profit drugs these are the huge huge flaws in the U.S medical system.
health care in America is VERY BROKEN AND YES IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.
MEXICO has 100% coverage on any working person and everyone is treated EQUALLY. as far as health care goes.
and this coverage is PAID FOR BY THE EMPLOYERS of the working people | |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by dumbamericans :
the US has the WORST overall health care system IN THE WORLD for its OWN PEOPLE.
try being elderly on ssi paying insurance premiums and prescriptions, or state funded ssi and state Medicaid with subsidized so called insurance. I agree with you. However, I also agree with Rs who say "America's health care system is the best in the world." The problem is that both sides don't recognize the other side's valid perspective.
If you have a lot of money (or a good job with good insurance), you can get the latest MRI, etc., which isn't available to the average person in other countries (or, they have to wait, even for older MRI, etc.).
But, if you don't have money, you can't get much of anything. You're prohibited by law from buying inferior goods and services in the interest of "public safety" (a collective, socialist argument).
IMO, that's the problem with the healthcare debate. Both sides arguing without considering the legitimacy of the other side.
I understand people who fear that *more equitable* distribution of *already socialized* healthcare will eliminate the leading-edge choices they have available to them (and which aren't available in other countries).
But, they tend not to recognize that the artificially-created market of high-quality goods and services is responsible for the availability of leading-edge choices. And that this "market" came at the expense of those denied the choice of goods and services *they can afford.*
Mark | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
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| said by amigo_boy :Personally, I'd like to see competing medical associations. The AMA providing top-shelf accreditation for those willing to pay top-shelf prices. A PMA (Public Medical Association) for those willing to accept lower quality goods and services at a discount. That's a pretty interesting idea. I think that provided that some basic standards were observed, you could make a distinction based on professional accreditation. Unfortunately, history tells us that the field of medicine does need some regulation, you only have to look at the stories of quackery and patent medicines from the early 20th century for proof.
There are other ways to achieve what you suggest. One could be that patients could agree to a limited tort against a doctor for malpractice... such a tactic has reduced car insurance costs in jurisdictions where it has been tried.
Based on my own experiences at the business end of the medical industry, I've found that treatments for most medical problems are indeed cut and dried, and you don't need the latest and greatest medical technology to treat most diseases. Allowing patients to see a doctor who has a slightly less impressive set of credentials, but who also has a low to nil rate of malpractice problems (and even the current system doesn't fully address that) would indeed reduce costs and allow more people access to adequate healthcare at a reasonable cost.
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amigo_boy
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Tempe, AZ
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2 edits | Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by pnh102 :I think that provided that some basic standards were observed, you could make a distinction based on professional accreditation. I agree. The root of the healthcare debate is "market choice." Those opposed to [greater] socialization of the market complain that it will eliminate their ability to buy goods and services within the "market" as it exists today.
Those who support [greater] socialization object to today's "market" because it doesn't produce goods and services which meet their needs (defined partially by what they can pay for).
The debate quickly breaks down into one side complaining that the other wants "something for free." Or, the other side isn't "compassionate."
They both miss the point. Today's beneficiaries of "the world's best healthcare system" are getting "something for free." They can choose goods and services within a "market" whose quality has been artificially raised by society. Much more predictable "market outcomes" than would exist if more variation existed (in quality). Less responsibility to exercise due diligence when checking credentials. (It's a very efficient "market" for those who can afford it. This efficiency, and higher quality came at the expense of those denied other market choices.).
There's nothing magic about 8 years of education. Why not 9? Or, 12? The AMA set the education level based upon a pragmatic balancing of cost/benefit.
We could have 40-year medical degrees -- and only a dozen practicing doctors in the country! Those who could afford to see these dozen doctors would say we have the best health care in the world. 
So, why not have 7-year degrees? Or 6?
Same thing with pharmacists (no offense to "Jeffery"). I see these guys answering the phone, making change at the cash register, counting pills. Anyone can do that. We're told they're necessary to research drug interactions and perform patient consultations. But, that could be done remotely. We could have regional pharmacist service centers to leverage an economy of scale. Kiosks in each pharmacy where the patient could consult with a pharmacist.
The point being: we made an arbitrary pragmatic cost/benefit choice concerning pharmacists. If their services are so essential, then why not have 2 or 3 in each pharmacy? We decided one was enough. We could easily decide that using shared, remote services is good enough too.
The "market" can't decide these things because the doctors and pharmacists exclusively control their professions. They have no incentive/pressure to meet market needs this way.
I agree with you that we can't have a Libertarian, anything-goes market. Nobody wants a "market" where you can buy medicine manufactured in your neighbor's bathtub.
But, we're pretty far from that problem. I think we could have multiple accrediting agencies (multiple medical associations) and let the market decide.
I think this would be a perfect Republican position. Ds tend to focus on protecting people from "market" injustice. Rs don't want market injustice either (if it affects them). But, they're more inclined to look for ways to establish a "framework" for the market to operate within, and correct itself. Multiple accrediting associations would do that.
If the AMA's high standards cost more than a majority are willing to pay for, they're likely to lower their standards to gain more marketshare. (There would have to be some emphasis on compliance regulation. We wouldn't want to justify non-compliance to an association's standards because someone was willing to pay for it.).
Also, I don't know about individually waiving malpractice in return for lower prices. There is a long-standing legal doctrine that you can't sign away your rights. For example, if I enter a carnival, and the back of the ticket says "you accept all responsibility for injury," this doesn't eliminate the carnival's responsibility to take "reasonable" steps to prevent injury. The definition of "reasonable" is what ends up in the hands of a jury.
We've established a high expectation for "reasonable" because we've set artificially high medical standards through public law. Maybe this definition of "reasonable" would change if we had multiple accreditation associations (with discernible quality expectations). If you chose the top-shelf AMA, you might expect a multi-million settlement due to the AMA's depiction of itself. If you chose the commoner's medical association, you'd bear some responsibility for different outcomes. "Reasonable" would be defined by the standards expected by that accrediting association.
Mark | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Healthcare and socialism? The system you describe for pharmacies already exists in a way. Most mail-order pharmacies (similar to the remote ones you described) charge significantly less than traditional in-store pharmacies.
From the experience of myself, my family and most people I know, the quality of the service from the mail order pharmacy is comparable to that of a traditional pharmacy but you trade timeliness in getting your product for savings in money.
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by pnh102 :The system you describe for pharmacies already exists in a way. That probably demonstrates the hypothetical system to an extent. It illustrates the economies of scale that can be had by placing expensive (highly-educated) pharmacists over more transactions (so they have less time to make change, answer telephone inquiries whether an order is ready, etc.).
But, that's the nature of e-retail. The problem is that there seems to be a law requiring every pharmacy to be overseen by a pharmacist. I don't think it's possible for CVS to have a dozen pharmacists handling 4 dozen stores remotely. Approving prescriptions. Providing consultations via kiosks.
There's probably a state pharmacy board made up of pharmacists who recommend to the legislature how pharmacies should be governed. That's good as far as it goes. I wouldn't want plumbers regulating pharmacies. But, there's obvious problems with a professional group having essentially a monopoly (through public law) on their profession. They won't be inclined to look for ways to make their profession more efficient if it means 3 in 4 losing their jobs.
Everything in the world comes down to that simple calculus. Who's ox is being gored. Going back to the modern healthcare debate. Those who can afford our artificially-created "market" are upset because their ox will be gored. But, they're ok with goring the ox of those who can't afford our system, *and are denied lessor choices they can afford*.
It's human nature.
Mark | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| Re: Healthcare and socialism? said by Shamayim :said by ronpin :Even Rush Limbaugh . . . he's just too frick'n dumb . . . Yeah, Rush Limbaugh is dumb like B. Hussein Obama is an American patriot. Yes to both.
I do know one thing. Healthcare *must* be addressed because if nothing is done, it is one of the planks that America is going to walk right off the end of.
The spiralling costs of healthcare ALONE could sink the entire country. Something MUST change.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Woot! said by MAR_03_2002 :I have & pay for healthcare. What it should say is "I want you to pay for others healthcare". let's hope you never get a condition that hurts your insurance companies profit margin. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Woot! said by dib22 :let's hope you never get a condition that hurts your insurance companies profit margin. Let's just hope should socialized medicine go through that you never get a condition that scores low on the government's cost benefit analysis. At least you can reason with the insurance company the government not so much.
It's funny you all cry think of poor grandma who can't afford to pay to have the brain tumor removed; meanwhile grandma has the most to lose should socialized medicine come to town since she doesn't feed the machine. | |
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join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Re: Woot! Grandma has the least to lose, and the most to gain. Socialized medicine would provide her guaranteed healthcare at little to no cost, except for the tiny % she pays in taxes from her miniscule income. Preventative medicine applied to a socialized system that benefits from such practices would increase the quality of her life significantly, while keeping her out of the hospital. | |
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KenTheCook
Vornado Fan
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join:2005-10-26
Lahaina, HI | Very Cool, Thanks! | |
| brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Homestead, FL | Hurray! Happy 4th of July everyone. NO TAXES from Europe | |
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jinjimbob
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13 | Re: Hurray! Thats right, the US can tax its self much better! | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Happy 4th Everyone! ^^^ Subject ^^^ | |
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Mactron
el Camino Real
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CM94sv | Re: Happy 4th Everyone! Have a Safe one too.. 
4 Days off. YaY !  | |
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norton
join:2005-08-03
Holland, MI | Re: Happy 4th Everyone! 3 days off and a job!!! | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B | Interesting question. Here's an interesting question. If the British had won, what would the United States have looked like today?
Canada maybe? | |
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backfeed
is giving feedback
join:2002-12-16
Peru, IN | Re: Interesting question. We probably would be speaking German..or Japanese | |
| | | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Seeing as how virtually every other country won their independence, even if the US hadn't won it's reasonable to surmise eventually it would have gained its independence. Most likely however it would have been a hollow victory, requiring decades before it could catch up to the rest of the modern world's economy and social status. | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Interesting question. Uh... Isn't that pretty much what's happening now? Your country still doesn't have a national health care plan, your banks are gobbling up all your cash reserves, your car companies are going bust for making cars twenty years out of style, people are losing their homes, you still rely on coal and foreign (i.e. Canadian) oil for your energy needs...
Your nation has some very serious problems on its hands. | |
| | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Re: Interesting question. It's easy to point out economic issues during a recession. Usually though these have little impact on people's lives and overall the American standard of living is extremely high (except for healthcare). | |
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Hpower
Roflmao
join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | No internet access = sux God I am dying here with no internet access at my new apartment I moved to. Install date for charter cable 16/1mbps is on July 10th. Ugh, so many days of being offline is horrible lol. No xbox, no email, no aim, no everything. Sux having to do stuff from work but it's alright till I get my connection setup.
For the weekend, all I want to do is sleep, eat, watch movies on my pc and repeat lol. Took a week off from the gym since I been busy all week with moving, organizing and cleaning my new apartment. That's a workout on it's own.
Happy 4th of July everyone! Drink responsibly and have fun.
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Matt
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Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Have a Happy Fourth Everyone! Tomorrow, it doesn't matter if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, Asian, Russian, Chinese, Mexican, or Latino -- we're all just American.
I am going for my weekend long run at my favorite park, Guilford Battleground Park. The British handed our ass to us in that battle, but we destroyed over 25% of Lord Cornwallis' army, forcing him to abandon his campaign for the Carolinas and setting up his defeat and eventual surrender at Yorktown seven months later.
Running in that park and looking out across the battlefields from both the British and American perspective is surreal, yet oddly calming. | |
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drew
Reformation
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Port Orchard, WA
clubs: | Re: Have a Happy Fourth Everyone! Yay Independence Day, boo running. | |
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Gizy
Have you thanked a soldier today?
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join:2002-08-26
Lake Oswego, OR
| And when you look at those battlefields, remember those still sacrificing for our Independence Day Celebrations.
Say thank you to a vet, current or retired, or if you don't know one, adopt one.
»anysoldier.com/
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Any Soldier
My Gallery
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Matt
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Have a Happy Fourth Everyone! said by Gizy :And when you look at those battlefields, remember those still sacrificing for our Independence Day Celebrations. Say thank you to a vet, current or retired, or if you don't know one, adopt one. » anysoldier.com/ Amen! My girlfriend is a Marine, so I thank one every day! (And my brother who is down was in the Navy.) | |
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weeksben1
Premium
join:2004-02-26
Clarkston, MI | The british may have handed us our ass @ that battle, but we ended up handing him (and the brits) their collective walking papers about 7 months later. | |
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Noah Vail
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Lorton, VA
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1 edit | itsaworldoflaughteraworldoftearsitsaworldofhopeitsaworldoffe it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world.
My son and I went to Disney World this week. He and I had a birthday, so The Mouse gifted us free admission; complete with Personalized Birthday Button.
it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world.
'Cast Members' bade us fond Birthday Wishes by name. All day long. Over and Over Again.
Toward the end of the day several guests seemed to forget who they were and began Happy Birthdaying us, as well.
it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all (I thought they got rid of the IaSW ride...please someone help me) its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world. it's a world of laughter, a world or tears its a world of hopes, its a world of fear theres so much that we share that its time we're aware its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small world after all its a small, small world.
It was a lot of fun for my son and I. I especially enjoyed the preview of Therapyland. Must have got in because of our birthday.
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
| Phugg
join:2004-09-30
Riverbank, CA | Have a great weekend Have a happy 4th y'all. DO NOT drive after even 1 drink. Myself my kids and honey will all be on the road SOBER. Don't hurt anyone please. | |
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VerdeDude
Simondsia Chinesis
join:2003-05-01
Northern Az.
| Happy 4th!
The DSLReports.Com Icons are Celebrating! |
All my page Icons and pictures got loose! | |
| | 
Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state | Re: Happy 4th! Yay for JavaScript! | |
| 
capecoddah
join:2005-03-18
Yarmouth Port, MA
| WORK!!! Busiest weekend of the season, full-tilt, crazy-go-nuts, closed roads, traffic from Hell, sold-out, full-house, and I'm having a blast! ALL my crew was ready (even the princess lifeguards), WiFi is working, the property looks great, all the guests are happy, the sun finally came out, and summer is in full swing! God I love it when a plan comes together!
I'm in/on my second office (roof) having a Killer Lobster Roll, a Coke and a smile checking out the guests, parking lot, street, courtyard and where to watch the fireworks from. "Donated" laptop (lost and found from last year we tried to return) is nice too.
I hope no police, fire or EMT stop by this weekend on business.
Be happy, safe and thoughtful this weekend.
"When in the course of human events..." | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH | Happy 4th all! May God bless all of you and the entire U.S.A. Be safe all and don't drink & drive. | |
| 
Richard B
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
·Comcast
| Happy Forth of July "I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival," he supposedly said. "It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.
"It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward for evermore,"
attributed to John Addams after the adoption of the Decoration of Independence in July 1776. | |
| | 
fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
·EarthLink
Host:
Earthlink DSL
Speakeasy
TekSavvy
Forum Feature Requ..
Need Site Help?
| typical midget wrestler drug murder hooker story »www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp···omp.html
quote:
TWO midget wrestlers died after a drink-fuelled night with hookers.
The pair were found in a hotel room on Monday in Mexico City, not far from the famous Arena Mexico wrestling venue.
They were identified as brothers Alberto and Alejandro Jiménez, who were known in the ring as La Parkita and Espectrito Jr.
Reports say the wrestlers, both aged 35, picked up two prostitutes and took them to a hotel room but, hours later, the women left alone.
When a hotel worker went to clean the room they discovered the bodies of the wrestlers laying in the beds.
Autopsies are being carried out but investigators believe the grapplers overdosed after taking a dose of eye drops combined with alcohol.
You can't make this stuff up. | |
| | 
Jeffrey
One day closer to Spring
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Dix Hills,NY
clubs: | Re: typical midget wrestler drug murder hooker story Eye drops and alcohol? That's a new one. I read this last night, and I just shook my head. You really can't make this stuff up. | |
| | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Cost of Rural Fiber + TV: $1500, dropping Since this is technically an open thread... I thought I'd point out this interesting article from dslprime.com:
Hiawatha Broadband in Winona, Minnesota pays approximately $800 to pass a home, and another $750 to connect it, including one set-top box, according to an FTTH Council. The rural carrier costs are only slightly higher than Verizon, at $700 and 650 for similar. The home television hookup is several hundred dollars of each figure, so $1,000 - $1,300 is the right estimate for an efficient fiber installation in the U.S. today.
In other words, the cost of rolling out fiber to rural areas is vastly overstated by the incumbent telcos. What a surprise there. Also, if we apply this number to the total number of households in America, a government program rolling out fiber to say 95% of American households would cost somewhere between $100-$150 billion. Better internet infrastructure than a stupid and unnecessary war in Iraq. | |
| | 
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Cost of Rural Fiber + TV: $1500, dropping said by sonicmerlin :Since this is technically an open thread... I thought I'd point out this interesting article from dslprime.com: Hiawatha Broadband in Winona, Minnesota pays approximately $800 to pass a home, and another $750 to connect it, including one set-top box, according to an FTTH Council. The rural carrier costs are only slightly higher than Verizon, at $700 and 650 for similar. The home television hookup is several hundred dollars of each figure, so $1,000 - $1,300 is the right estimate for an efficient fiber installation in the U.S. today. What is the average distance between homes. I'm sure there are some areas where you may only have a few houses per miles the cost would be somewhat higher. Still as you say the excuses ISPs come up with are that excuses. Even if you assume that a person getting both TV and internet and 80% of the monthly fee goes to maintenance and other costs, still any company rolling out fiber would make all their money back within 5 years. | |
| | | madden2k5
join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Cox Equipment picks great time to fail... Well it just happens a piece of cox's equipment failed somewhere yesterday evening, and now i gotta wait till tomorrow between 3-5pm for a tech to come. Then once he sees the problem aint here, its no telling how long before they find the problem.
So atm no tv, and im surprised the modem is even running with such a low signal of 31db for SNR, which was 38 before problem, and my downstream power is now -9, it was +5 before yesterday. So all and all a shitty weekend for cable and all to screw up. | |
| | | | MAR_03_2002
Premium
join:2002-03-03
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Cox Equipment picks great time to fail... said by madden2k5 :Well it just happens a piece of cox's equipment failed somewhere yesterday evening, and now i gotta wait till tomorrow between 3-5pm for a tech to come. Then once he sees the problem aint here, its no telling how long before they find the problem. So atm no tv, and im surprised the modem is even running with such a low signal of 31db for SNR, which was 38 before problem, and my downstream power is now -9, it was +5 before yesterday. So all and all a shitty weekend for cable and all to screw up. If you have neighbors that also called, they may fix it BEFORE your appointment time.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | | | madden2k5
join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Cox Equipment picks great time to fail... said by MAR_03_2002 :said by madden2k5 :Well it just happens a piece of cox's equipment failed somewhere yesterday evening, and now i gotta wait till tomorrow between 3-5pm for a tech to come. Then once he sees the problem aint here, its no telling how long before they find the problem. So atm no tv, and im surprised the modem is even running with such a low signal of 31db for SNR, which was 38 before problem, and my downstream power is now -9, it was +5 before yesterday. So all and all a shitty weekend for cable and all to screw up. If you have neighbors that also called, they may fix it BEFORE your appointment time. Well i dunno if they did or not, but my luck is my modem gunna drop today because the hotter it gets outside the weaker the signal gets, and with already bad signal because of failure somewhere.. I wont be surprised it drops soon. I mean hell there isnt enough signal to run the hdboxes, so im just playing the waiting game now. | |
| Chaldo
join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI | Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!! the subject says it all | |
| | Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN
1 edit | Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!! Heh, I hear ya on that one.
I've got my Professional "B" Class fireworks .....HEhehehe
I've for 72 x 3 inch mortars balls, and 10 x 6 Inch mortars balls (Almost as big as your head)
but we've been handling professional fireworks for years, we know what we are doing and we apply all the necessary safety precautions.
but almost every single trailer in our trailer court is abandoned or taken away.
So we've got nothing but wide open spaces, about a football field.
We don't care about the cops, we light the sky on fire every 4th...since we were little kids..
It's an american tradition dammit !!!!
I'm sick of all these cops trying to confiscate everyone's fireworks because they don't wanna pay for em. | |
| | | Chaldo
join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI
1 edit | Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!! Yea we get a lot of class C some class B stuff from some people weknow. We light them safely the cops always come we know most of them, but all this cops coming and ticketing who ever thinks its for YOUR safety, please go hit your head on the wall. ITS ALL FUCKING MONEY, MONEY TALK! I don't really care anymore, but the cops haven't showed up last year to no ones house around here maybe they wont this year.
By the way one of my favorite class b fireworks = Thunderking LOVE THEM! | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | LOL...fireworks, trailers, Indiana...
thanks for the chuckle. | |
| | 
Laughing Man
Stand Alone Complex
Premium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY
clubs: | I lit off a few home-made acetylene bombs this year, felt the shockwave from those suckers. | |
| | | 
Wizeguy
join:2008-08-23
Safety Harbor, FL | Re: Blow up the streets and F THE COPS!!! Ah so your the guy that blew out my windows? Sending you the bill.....JK | |
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE | 2 Words Holiday pay | |
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Opticwonders
Premium
join:2009-03-31
united state | WOOO! WOOO! I always love the 4th of July | |
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Fourth Of July Open Thread
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I'm happy to have a day off.